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MBA Spain

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AndrewD Joined: 07 May 2007 Posts: 1	MBA Spain Tue May 08, 2007 05:56 PM Hello I am interested in doing an MBA in spain for several reasons: -To gain a qualification to expand my career options from my current career in engineering -To learn about finance / economics (not so much into the fluffy management stuff!) -Improve my spanish Any advise on good, economical course options? Also, I would like to know the difference between the quality of the courses. Given the wide variety of pirces, I cant belive the difference in price is proportional to the teaching quality. Is there any point in doing a "cheaper" MBA?
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jaitego Joined: 19 Nov 2006 Posts: 141	MBA Spain Tue May 08, 2007 08:26 PM I guess you've already read other posts in this web site regarding MBAs in Spain. There are five accredited programs: Instituto de Empresa and UCarlos III in Madrid; and IESE, ESADE and EADA in Barcelona. IE, IESE and ESADE are the top three according to the usual international rankings, but are also very expensive. In terms of value for money, the best option is UCarlos III. Being a public university, it has lower tuitions than any other accredited program in Spain (even cheaper than some non-accredited programs of private schools). It is also a good option for you given that you care about academic rigor --it has probably the best or one of the best faculties in Spain from the point of view of research. On the negative side, you should take into account that the program is not as well known as the big ones and that it is relatively young, which implies that its alumni network is small. Is there a point in doing this cheaper MBA? I would say it depends. You have to be aware of the strengths and weaknesses of the program, and then see how much you care about each. If you care mostly about the quality of faculty and the alumni network has less importance for you, then UCarlos III is worth considering. Even then I would visit the school to make sure that you like it. On the other hand, if you care a lot about having a wide alumni network you should perhaps consider spending more money and going to IESE, IE or ESADE. Then of course it depends also on how much money you've saved and/or how much you want to borrow. [Edited 08 May 2007 by jaitego]
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Post MBA Joined: 17 May 2007 Posts: 83	MBA Spain Fri May 18, 2007 12:10 PM You are correct that teaching quality is not related to the price in Spain. Professor backgrounds are the best indicator of teaching quality at a institution. Full Disclosure: I am participating in the FIND MBA board as an excercise to provide an illustration for a segment I am teaching of the course "What the CEO wants you to know" at BMI www.barcelonami.org One of the readings for the segment is www.wired.com/wired/archive/15.04/wired40_ceo.html……… Click on Post MBA for more biographical info. Hello I am interested in doing an MBA in spain for several reasons: -To gain a qualification to expand my career options from my current career in engineering -To learn about finance / economics (not so much into the fluffy management stuff!) -Improve my spanish Any advise on good, economical course options? Also, I would like to know the difference between the quality of the courses. Given the wide variety of pirces, I cant belive the difference in price is proportional to the teaching quality. Is there any point in doing a "cheaper" MBA? [Edited 20 Jul 2007 by Post MBA]
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katalina Joined: 17 Aug 2006 Posts: 108	MBA Spain Sun Jul 08, 2007 04:08 PM Hello Andrew, in general the really good programs have their price. But when it comes to medium quality programs, prices vary quite a lot, and MBAs often are overpriced. You have to watch out here. Especially in Spain the situation is complicated: You have some public universities offering good MBA programs for quite cheap prices, since they have other sources for financing (public money) than tuition; whereas private business schools sometimes just are a ripp off. So yes, it can be a very good idea to do a cheaper MBA, if you don't want to go for the 4 big programs IE, IESE, EADE, ESADE which have accordingly high tuitions. But you have to make sure that the program is worth it. First of all Carlos III's MBA is excellent, as Jaitego explains, and if you want to have some alternatives, check out MBAs offered by other public schools, and look for their accreditations and international reputation to know, if they are good enough. I'm currently doing this reseach now, and I will share the info then on this board
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SingleSpain Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Posts: 98	MBA Spain Mon Jul 09, 2007 04:28 PM Its pretty clear that Jaitego is overheating Carlos III. I never heard before about this MBA. Any serious business person in Spain would consider this MBA as a top MBA. So people from other countries do not consider this is as a seriious option and do not waste oyur time with an MBA with almost no credentials in the Business community.
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pedro 56 Joined: 08 Jul 2007 Posts: 2	MBA Spain Mon Jul 09, 2007 05:19 PM Single Spain, you have just anticipated me, I am very surprised by this over-promotion of Carlos III which is not ranked, has just one accreditation and is never mentioned or present in any conference or MBA fair. The 4 big schools are IESE and IE, then ESADE and then EADA, Some perople might desagree on which is the first the second or the third, but for sure EADA is the fourth and the last option, I would not consider Carlos III in this group, but in the 2nd tier group together with EAE, Barcelona Business School.... Good Luck
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katalina Joined: 17 Aug 2006 Posts: 108	MBA Spain Wed Jul 11, 2007 03:06 PM Ok, maybe I was too enthusiastic about Carlos III?? Still, for me all this info about Carlos III is useful, since I'm looking for a good but not so expensive program. I think for people like me who cannot afford one of the 4 ranked schools, Carlos III is a good option (correct me if I'm wrong), and I'm sure we are the large majority... So Pedro and SingleSpain, you have to keep in mind when reading those comments that they are for people like me, for whon actually it is not so important to know which are the very very best MBAs in Spain, considering all factors - but which are the "second" best MBAs. Now, one thing that confuses me a bit is that I was convinced about Carlos III being ranked. Mmh... it's not? What about Pompeu Fabra? Or are those 4 quoted above the only ones ranked?
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jaitego Joined: 19 Nov 2006 Posts: 141	MBA Spain Wed Jul 11, 2007 03:29 PM Katalina, neither Carlos III nor Pompeu are ranked, as far as I know. The only Spanish MBAs that appear in the international rankings are IESE, IE, ESADE, and EADA.
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SingleSpain Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Posts: 98	MBA Spain Wed Jul 11, 2007 03:35 PM Katalina, For the coming year there will be a new loan guaranted by the Minstery of Education of aprox. 22.000 euros (with no interest), so consider it a good source of funds for your MBA.
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katalina Joined: 17 Aug 2006 Posts: 108	MBA Spain Fri Jul 13, 2007 06:08 PM Hi, thanks for the hint. Do you know where I can get more information? Who can benefit from this loan?
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Krista Joined: 19 Jul 2007 Posts: 4	MBA Spain Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:14 AM Hi SingleSpain, Is this new loan from the ministry of education only good for Spanis students or can international students apply? Where can i get more information about it. I am finding ways to finance my MBA in Spain!!
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SingleSpain Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Posts: 98	MBA Spain Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:55 AM I am not sure. Ask schools about that. What I can say is that I read about it in the newspapers, but not an official website. where are you applying?
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Krista Joined: 19 Jul 2007 Posts: 4	MBA Spain Fri Jul 20, 2007 03:30 PM I'm still deciding but i need to be close to the ocean so Madrid is out. I think I'm going to look at schools in Barcelona. I'm looking at programs taught in English as I'm American and do not speak any Spanish but I love the Spainish culture! What should I look for in an International MBA program?
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katalina Joined: 17 Aug 2006 Posts: 108	MBA Spain Sat Jul 21, 2007 03:37 PM Hi, I've been googling but could not find any general reference to this loan, just info on scholarships on the sites of the indivual schools. Krista, there is a lot of discussion in this board on MBAs in Spain, mostly on the English speaking. I'll go for a tought in Spanish, but you should check those four schools as a start, since they are the best ones in Spain for International MBA or EMBA: IE, IESE, ESADE, and EADA. Already in this post you'll find some infomation. If you go to the reference of the schools on this site, you'll find below links to the latest board posts on the school. As an example, IE: www.find-mba.com/university/457/ie-business-school… [Edited 21 Jul 2007 by katalina]
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SingleSpain Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Posts: 98	MBA Spain Sun Jul 22, 2007 03:30 PM Krista, If it´s Barcelona, focus on IESE and ESADE. Then if you find the previous very demanding choose EADA or EAE.
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jaitego Joined: 19 Nov 2006 Posts: 141	MBA Spain Sun Jul 22, 2007 04:36 PM Katalina & Krista, The Spanish Ministry of Education does have a loan program for Master's programs. Unfortunately, the information is only in Spanish: www.prestamos-renta-universidad.es/ It is only for EU nationals or Spanish residents with at least two years of residence in Spain. You can get at most 6,000 euros to finance your tuition and a maximum of 800 euros per month, for 21 months max., to cover other expenses. You can see other details in the above web page. [Edited 22 Jul 2007 by jaitego]
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SingleSpain Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Posts: 98	MBA Spain Mon Jul 23, 2007 08:23 AM It´s a 22.000 euros for 0% interest for 8 years to participate in Official Masters Degree from a European University.
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katalina Joined: 17 Aug 2006 Posts: 108	MBA Spain Tue Jul 24, 2007 01:10 PM 22.000 euro is great, but apparently I cant benefit from the loan, it's only for residents? a pity... :-(
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Krista Joined: 19 Jul 2007 Posts: 4	MBA Spain Thu Jul 26, 2007 09:53 AM Thank you for all the posts! I guess as I'm from the US I won't be able to apply. =/ I've been talking to some of my old professors about different programs in Barcelona and some have mentioned that Spain does not have a strong history with business education or MBAs. Said the schools are a little behind the times. One of my old professors also knows some of the professors who teach at BMI and recommended that I check it out. I have been in communication with BMI asking them all types of questions. Has anyone attended BMI? I am interested in knowing more information from a student point of view. [Edited 26 Jul 2007 by Krista]
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SingleSpain Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Posts: 98	MBA Spain Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:12 AM Krista, Don't get confussed. Esade and Iese have 50 years behind as a business school. Of course that are not at the top 10 US level, but both schools are considered among top 10 in Europe. BMI is not a business school, nobody knows it in Barcelona, it has zero prestige, it' s a bluff that some people is tryiing to promote in this forum.
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Krista Joined: 19 Jul 2007 Posts: 4	MBA Spain Thu Jul 26, 2007 01:31 PM Jeez. SingleSpain. My former professor recommended it to me and I value his advice. Checked out some of your old posts and you seem to have a chip on your shoulder. Anyway, I'd like to hear from current BMI students to hear what they have to say about the program.
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SingleSpain Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Posts: 98	MBA Spain Thu Jul 26, 2007 05:12 PM I just give advice to people who aims for a top MBA, with quality and prestige. If oyu want to lose your money and time, just do it.
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Post MBA Joined: 17 May 2007 Posts: 83	MBA Spain Thu Jul 26, 2007 06:23 PM hi SS - just saw this post... Your behavior in this forum confuses me on several levels. What is the reason for your alternatingly acidic and altruistic comments? As a fan of brands you should love the new approach to the MBA taken at BMI: bringing the top professors affiliated with top schools to teach in Barcelona. Even the Academic Director, Dr. John Branch has a Ph.D. from Cambridge University and has taught at Northwestern (Kellogg) and University of Michigan (Ross) winning teaching awards along the way. My own experience with BMI has been very positive in relation to my experience as an MBA student at Washington University in St. Louis and ESADE, researcher at NYU and having lectured in the Executive MBA program at Washington University in St. Louis. Also, I've found Jaitego's comments generally well thought out and informative and you let loose on him/her above. Krista appears to be using the forum for information gathering and you unload both barrels. No need to respond as I assume this part of the post has wandered far from AndrewD's original intent. Full Disclosure: I am participating in the FIND MBA board as an excercise to provide an illustration for a segment I am teaching of the course "What the CEO wants you to know" at BMI www.barcelonami.org One of the readings for the segment is www.wired.com/wired/archive/15.04/wired40_ceo.html………… Click on Post MBA for more biographical info. [Edited 27 Jul 2007 by Post MBA]
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jaitego Joined: 19 Nov 2006 Posts: 141	MBA Spain Fri Jul 27, 2007 07:28 PM Krista, Since you want to know the opinion of BMI alumni, I suggest that you get in touch with the school and ask them for contact information of alumni who live in your area. If your former professor recommended the program, this is something you should take into account. He probably knows people who are teaching there. However, I must tell you that I find your professor's advice a bit contradictory. The fact that Spanish MBAs lag behind the US programs would actually be an important reason to choose a Spanish MBA that is accredited and well ranked. I don't see how the fact that MBAs are not too good in Spain implies that you should choose BMI, which is not even accredited and has no reputation. I don't see the logic there. It is possible that BMI will take off and become a well-reputed MBA program in Spain, but it is also quite possible that it won't. It is a risky (and expensive) choice. Why wouldn't you choose an MBA that is more established? If you want to go to Barcelona, I would recommend to choose a program that is accredited and relatively well-known, like IESE, ESADE or EADA. BMI's idea to use external faculty from different parts of the world is interesting, but my personal view is that it's an unstable model for a business school. The first time they do it, professors find it nice to go to Barcelona and teach a course, enjoy the city, etc. But after the second or third time they will find it less interesting and will give up. The school will have to find other faculty to replace them. That's a problem because a business school needs permanent faculty. I've also had a look at the faculty at BMI and I didn't see anything really extraordinary enough to compensate the risk. [Edited 27 Jul 2007 by jaitego]
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Post MBA Joined: 17 May 2007 Posts: 83	MBA Spain Sat Jul 28, 2007 08:06 PM Hi jaitego - the majority of your arguments in the previous post are based on false assumptions and misinformation. To other readers...apologies for the epic length post required to address the previous post. You may want to pour a warm cup of tea, put on some good music and settle in for this one. SPAIN AND SPANISH MBAs Why do non-Spanish prospective MBAs want to do an MBA in Spain? One reason: Spain is a nice place to spend a year or two. This is the primary driver for non-Spanish students to seek an MBA in Spain. Until BMI was founded (by top MBA grads, Professors and Business People) the only option for an MBA in Spain was a Spanish MBA. Each student chosing to come to Spain did so knowing that they would be learning from Spanish Professors with expertise in the Spanish economy. And Spain is not the global leader in any of the core subjects of the MBA: Marketing Economics Business Law Accounting Quantitative Methods Finance Organizational Theory Interpersonal Skills Information Technology General Management In other words, students had to give up a great deal in terms of education to be in a nice place until BMI brought a North American program with top professors affiliated with top global programs to Spain. For example, at ESADE I was taught the BCG matrix as the latest in corporate strategy (for those who do not know the BCG matrix it was cutting edge in the eighties, led to formless conglomerates which lost billions in shareholder value and has been widely discredited since the early nineties). If an recent MBA hired into my company (or any global company) pushed for this idea he/she would lose credibility and perhaps her position. So, yes, Krista I agree with your Professor's comment on Spanish programs. But how could Spain lead in any of the areas above? It is roughly the size of Poland and has a similar recent history. Spain was a closed society under a dictatorship until Franco fell in 1974. The Poles began opening to the outside world when Solidarity came in 1980. No one expects the Poles to lead in any of the areas above yet. BMI is in Spain and, as it expands and adds locations, will be educating students in additional locations (ex. Dubai) using the North American model and the top professors affiliated with the top global programs. ACCREDITATION There seems to be some confusion over what accreditation means. An accreditted school has completed a two year process of documenting its performance against MINIMUM standards. That's it. Thousands of schools are accreditted. As BMI is a new program it will join these schools with an AMBA accreditation over the next couple of years. To equate accreditation and quality is an error. To use a restaurant analogy, it is the equivalent of saying that because a restaurant does not have live bacteria or dead rats it must serve delicious and inspiring food. A health certification is not a statement of quality. Only someone with little or no experience with restaurants could make such a mistake. To over emphasize accreditation is perhaps understandable as an MBA is never a repeat purchase by highly informed consumers. BMI exceeds the requirements for accreditation. Here are the AMBA accreditation requirements: 1. The institution offering an MBA should have a clear strategy and mission, explicitly expressed and regularly updated. 2. The faculty should be large enough to fully resource the institution's activities. There should be a critical mass that will be sufficient to ensure the institution is of national and/or international standing. Seventy-five per cent of faculty should have a Masters or Doctoral degree in a discipline relevant to the subject for which they are responsible, and the majority should hold a doctorate. 3. As the MBA is a post-experience, postgraduate degree, students admitted onto an accredited MBA must have a minimum of three years work experience, with the cohort averaging 5 years experience. A minimum annual intake of 20 needs to be sought. 4. The curriculum should be generalist in nature and must cover the core business skills: Marketing Economics Business Law Accounting Quantitative Methods Finance Organizational Theory Interpersonal Skills Information Technology General Management 5. The assessment scheme should reflect the particular aims, characteristics, and learning outcomes of the course. That is accreditation. Accreditation is not required for an MBA as it is a terminal degree. Ph.D. programs are also terminal degrees and are not accredited. Accreditation does matter for undergraduate degree holders who seek a Masters or Ph.D. BMI does not offer an undergraduate degree. PERMANENT FACULTY Assumption: The rationale for a preferring a permanent faculty is access and interaction with students. This is an anachronistic view of the relationship between researchers (as MBA Professors typically think of themselves) and students. Professors rarely interact with students outside of the classroom at top MBA programs. A permanent faculty also dictates mediocrity in the classroom. Professors at a school will line up on a bell curve for inspiring teaching (v. bad, bad, ok, good, v. good) with v. good at more than two standard deviations from the mean. What would be the justification for providing students with less than very inspiring teachers? An added concern when looking at Spanish programs is the frequent "Lifer" status, that is, Professors who also did their Ph.D. at the institution further limiting diversity of thought. The concern over Barcelona failing to attract repeat visits is certainly unfounded and a little weird. It is said that when you are tired of London you are tired of life. I can understand being tired of London but not Barcelona. The latest Porter & Novelli survey ranks Barcelona first for quality of life (for the seventh consecutive year). BMI, in fact, has the opposite problem. Foreign Professors cannot wait to teach again in Barcelona. Perhaps you are from Madrid and/or not a Barça fan? ;-) REPUTATION The school is new and is building its global reputation. BMI tells its story with the website (written by fmr. Wall Street Journal reporter Erik Ahlberg) www.barceloanmi.org and video shot on BMI's premises by Financial Times Conferences in support of their recent choice of Dr. John Branch (BMI Academic Director) to participate in their forum on, "Today's MBA". BMI exists to meet challenges that other MBA programs failed to address. It follows a new approach because the old approaches were less effective. I can understand being skeptical of new ways of doing things (like the automobile, air conditioning, aviation…and that’s just the A’s and just the last century) but an open mind and willingness to try new things pays dividends. Ask one of our first students. Lissy Pope graduated from Stanford University and is delighted with the MBA at the Barcelona Management Institute. [Edited 28 Jul 2007 by Post MBA]
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