Advanced Search · Board · Login

FIND MBA - MBA Programs Wordwide

MBA Discussion Board

MBA Discussion Board > Europe > MBA Spain

MBA Spain

Author	Message
katalina Joined: 17 Aug 2006 Posts: 108	MBA Spain Sun Jul 29, 2007 02:37 PM Maybe BMI has some good points, but it's not even accredited and has no reputation. as Jaitego states, that's a fact, and I still dont understand why tuition is the same as for other MBAs which ARE accredited and HAVE a reputation...
Profile P.M.	Quote
Post MBA Joined: 17 May 2007 Posts: 83	MBA Spain Sun Jul 29, 2007 03:03 PM Hi Katalina - thank you for your comments. The previous post should have established that BMI has some very good points - particularly in comparison to Spanish MBAs. If it was not a better MBA then I do not believe that the Professors or top MBAs who founded BMI would have bothered. What do you imagine are some of the reasons that this group decided to start a new MBA program? (hint: money isn't one of them - MBA programs run on the charity of others through endowments and donations which cover the difference between the cost of delivering the program and the tuition paid by the students.) It is a new school hence accreditation will follow in the next couple of years. The reputation of a new school is based on its affiliated Professors. Rather than having to justify the choice of a Spanish MBA when interviewing with a global company - BMI students can legitimately claim to have studied with leading experts from leading institutions. For example, "I studied Marketing with the top Marketing Professor from the University of Michigan at BMI" is much more compelling than "I studied Marketing in Spain at an MBA program that is Accredited and has a reputation in Spain". I can say this from the perspective of an employer of MBAs. In fact, I had no idea that there was such a thing as accreditation for MBA programs until quite recently (I imagine many people in this forum were in the same situation). As accreditation and reputation are significant concerns for you, please share your thoughts on how BMI could advance more quickly in these areas. The tuition is a significant discount on the cost of a traditional MBA program. All in costs for an MBA from Washington University in St. Louis or ESADE are approx. 100,000 USD not even including foregone salary. BMI's tuition in 2007 is 19.500 EUR. Once living expenses are included the cost is still less than half and foregone salary is limited to one year rather than two. The New York Times had an interesting article on tuition for business education (at the University level) today: www.nytimes.com/2007/07/29/education/29tuition.htm… [Edited by Post MBA on 29 Jul 2007]
Profile P.M.	Quote
LP Joined: 19 Nov 2006 Posts: 157	MBA Spain Sun Jul 29, 2007 08:07 PM Post MBA: I'm sorry, but I've had a look at BMI's web page and none of the instructors are leaders in their field. You can't just place a "top professor" label on whomever you want. I don't see the logic in your other arguments. The fact that BMI (being a young program) can't be accredited at this point does not imply that it will be accredited in a couple of years. The fact that it's not ranked does not imply that it will be ranked in two years. And the fact that it could be ranked in a few years does not imply that it will be better ranked than IESE or ESADE. So you are asking students to pay an expensive tuition against the promise that in a few years the MBA will be not only accredited, but better ranked than IESE or ESADE. If that doesn't happen, I bet you won't give anybody's money back. Then, the fact that Barcelona is a nice place to visit/live does not imply that good faculty will be willing to go there year after year for a decent period of time. Professors have families and like to be in places with a good research environment. I don't see how such high turnover can achieve that. [Edited by LP on 30 Jul 2007]
Profile P.M.	Quote
SingleSpain Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Posts: 129	MBA Spain Mon Jul 30, 2007 08:58 AM From one point I would not attend BMI for my MBA, but having said that, if some US professors are starting a business school in Barcelona, it can be a positive initiative for the city and for Spain. Who are the shareholders of the school? Is BMI an acrredited school for teaching business studies in Spain? Jaitego, regarding the atractiveness of the city for professionals, I think that some professors will be willing to come to Barcelona for one year or similar periods (thus good for BMI). Ive seen these similar atractiveness for doctors coming from Sweden to bcn. The main problem with this strategy is that a BS need a permanent faculty and these professors with prestige won't consider it as a permanent employment.
Profile P.M.	Quote
Post MBA Joined: 17 May 2007 Posts: 83	MBA Spain Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:51 AM Hi jaitego – no reason to be sorry. BMI’s Professors have won teaching awards for their work as teachers in their subject areas and are affiliated with top programs. Perhaps you have made the mistake of assuming that it is not direct feedback from students, or consumers of Professor services (as represented by teaching awards) but research articles published that determine top Professors status. This basic confusion is a common one and has lead to the decline of the MBA as Bennis points out in his article, “How Business Schools Lost Their Way”. Your assertion that BMI Professors are not top Professors is wrong. Perhaps an example will clarify this point. The New York Times is generally considered a newspaper of record. Let’s ask the classic MBA question of the New York Times, “What is keeping you up at night?” Answer: Google News. Why? The New York Times is an institution with a great reputation – ranked, if you like – so why would they be concerned about an algorithm with no full time reporting staff? Because on every subject, every day there are hundreds or thousands of sources (similar to the range of MBA options) reporting on the same story (ex. Marketing) but only one of those is the “best” at communicating the information to the reader (teaching). Google chooses the “best” article based on the response of people who consume Journalist services (as indicated by linking to the article) and presents it to the reader. BMI chooses the Professors who win the teaching awards and are affiliated with top insitutions. Why would you want a Professor who is less skilled at teaching the subject than one who is demonstrably more skilled? Accreditation – BMI already exceeds the standards for accreditation. It is simply a lengthy process of approximately two years. Ranking – BMI is not hyper focused on rankings. Not one person in the business of business education takes rankings as an indication of quality (same story as accreditation). Rankings will come when they come. Money back guarantee – A good idea. Why not apply, jaitego – if you are accepted, perform well in the program and find it was a poor investment we can talk. Barcelona – your speculation is based on false assumptions and betrays a poor grasp of the dynamics of business education today. It does, however, appear that you value family above all and on that we can both agree.
Profile P.M.	Quote
hausverk Joined: 31 Jul 2007 Posts: 1	MBA Spain Wed Aug 01, 2007 02:06 AM I have been looking at MBA programs in Spain, particulary in Barcelona. Financially IE, ESADE and IESE are out of my league. I am looking more at EADA and Universitat Pompea Fabra (UPF). EADA is accredited, but UPF is not. I find the EADA program too short, only nine monts, but the UPF program too long, 15 months. In UPF there are less than 20 students in each class, which is one criteria for accreditation. I have read a lot on this web page about EADA, but less about UPF. Can anyone (perhaps current or former students at UPF) give me information about the MBA program that UPF is offering? Even though it is not accredited how are the courses, the faculty and your experience (if any)? Is it better or worse to have less students?
Profile P.M.	Quote
katalina Joined: 17 Aug 2006 Posts: 108	MBA Spain Fri Aug 03, 2007 09:45 AM UPF is ranked in the BW ranking - but it's true, it doesnt seem to be accredited whatsoever. Curious!
Profile P.M.	Quote
LP Joined: 19 Nov 2006 Posts: 157	MBA Spain Fri Aug 03, 2007 01:56 PM Katalina, I haven't seen UPF in any international ranking. Could you please send me the Business Week link where you've seen UPF's rank? I've checked their international ranking web site but haven't seen UPF there. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong page. Thank you. [Edited by LP on 03 Aug 2007]
Profile P.M.	Quote
katalina Joined: 17 Aug 2006 Posts: 108	MBA Spain Mon Aug 06, 2007 03:52 PM Hi Jaitego, here is the link, of BW, UPF is in the ranking of Western Europe: www.businessweek.com/bschools/04/geographic.htm#w_… Ooops, maybe I got it wrong and this is not a ranking, it says "2004 MBA profiles" - right, it does not sound like a ranking. Sorry for the confusion... But anyways, it's mentioned by BW in a list of otherwise very good, reputed prorgams, still surprising if UPF does not have any accreditation. Don't you think? [Edited by katalina on 06 Aug 2007]
Profile P.M.	Quote
SingleSpain Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Posts: 129	MBA Spain Tue Aug 07, 2007 08:38 AM UPF is a public university with studies in many fields with a very good reputation in Economics. Regardings the previous comments, UPF has a strong reputation for its research in Economics and the school recently launched Barcelona School of Economics. They are more focused on research and their model would be to repplicate the LSE model. So, for me, yes UPF is a reliable place for postgraduate studies in the field of Economics and business. Their MBA is very young but it probably deserves good standards. It might be a risky option (in the sense that recruiters do not consider it for its MBA) but I believe that the level of the program should be acceptable.
Profile P.M.	Quote
katalina Joined: 17 Aug 2006 Posts: 108	MBA Spain Wed Aug 08, 2007 09:31 AM Sure, the MBA at UPF seems to be a good program, I didn't want to say the opposite. UPF is not one public University among others in Spain in this case, but the MBA program is one that sticks out of the other public program in terms of quality. I was just surprised to see in mentioned among all these European top tier MBAs such as IMD, IE, ESADE, IESE, HEC, INSEAD, RSM, LBS, Cambridge, Warwick... without it being accreditated
Profile P.M.	Quote
LP Joined: 19 Nov 2006 Posts: 157	MBA Spain Thu Aug 09, 2007 03:20 PM Ooops, maybe I got it wrong and this is not a ranking, it says "2004 MBA profiles" - right, it does not sound like a ranking. Sorry for the confusion... But anyways, it's mentioned by BW in a list of otherwise very good, reputed prorgams, still surprising if UPF does not have any accreditation. Don't you think? Thank you, Katalina. I found it hard to believe that an MBA would be ranked without even being accredited. I don't know how this Business Week section works, but it may just be some kind of advertising (schools pay to be there). Since BW makes rankings, it probably uses its reputation to attract schools who want to advertise, and earn some money in that way. One needs to be very careful because some schools try to convince you that they are accredited or ranked but they are not. I think the best way to make sure that you get the information straight is to go to the accreditation agencies web sites or to the ranking sites. Schools can be members of accreditation agencies without actually being accredited. All they need to do is pay a fee. In much the same way, schools can advertise in newspapers or magazines but that doesn't mean that they are ranked in those newspapers/magazines. Nowadays it's quite difficult to distinguish between information and advertising. Business schools advertise in many ways. One of them is banners, but there are many others. For example, when newspapers interview the dean of a school or publish an editorial written by some faculty member, it's hard to tell whether they do it because of the information they want to provide, or because the school is a client that's paying for it in some way or another. [Edited by LP on 09 Aug 2007]
Profile P.M.	Quote
Malia Joined: 24 Sep 2006 Posts: 146	MBA Spain Thu Aug 09, 2007 08:34 PM Nowadays it's quite difficult to distinguish between information and advertising. Business schools advertise in many ways. One of them is banners, but there are many others. For example, when newspapers interview the dean of a school or publish an editorial written by some faculty member, it's hard to tell whether they do it because of the information they want to provide, or because the school is a client that's paying for it in some way or another. Right. And some universities obviously use discussion forums like this one to push their schools. All you can do is get several opinions. As jaitego says, you should always check the websites of the accreditation organizations direclty to find out whether a school is accredited or not. Some schools sort of "cheat" by mentioning that they are a member of eg AACSB or FIBAA, which does not mean that they are accredited.
Profile P.M.	Quote
katalina Joined: 17 Aug 2006 Posts: 108	MBA Spain Fri Aug 10, 2007 03:23 PM Nowadays it's quite difficult to distinguish between information and advertising. Business schools advertise in many ways. One of them is banners, but there are many others. For example, when newspapers interview the dean of a school or publish an editorial written by some faculty member, it's hard to tell whether they do it because of the information they want to provide, or because the school is a client that's paying for it in some way or another. Right. And some universities obviously use discussion forums like this one to push their schools. All you can do is get several opinions. Oh yes, I completely agree... Not easy to gather AUTHENTIC information amongst all that marketing! That's why I decided to take a lot of time to get all the necessary informaiton, before taking a final decision. To come back to the specific question: call me naive, but I still think UPF is a school above average, and the fact that we find it on the BW pages somehow contributes to that opinion... I can hardly imagine that they paid for it in this case. Am I too naive here? ;-) [Edited by katalina on 10 Aug 2007]
Profile P.M.	Quote
LP Joined: 19 Nov 2006 Posts: 157	MBA Spain Fri Aug 10, 2007 04:25 PM I don't know if you are too naive, Katalina, but in any case I agree with you that UPF is worth considering. The university has very good reputation in Spain and, even though their MBA is not accredited, I think it is probably a good option. [Edited by LP on 10 Aug 2007]
Profile P.M.	Quote
jdbranch Joined: 12 Aug 2007 Posts: 5	MBA Spain Mon Aug 13, 2007 01:51 PM Hello everyone. John Branch here, professor of marketing from the University of Michigan. I also serve as Academic Director at Barcelona Management Institute (BMI). I enjoyed reading all your posts and wanted to add some comments from ‘the other side’. To begin, I was doing my Ph.D. at the University of Cambridge when it launched its MBA. Personally, I think that the programme was ill conceived, poorly delivered, and generally not worth 30 000GBP or whatever it cost at the time. However, it was the MBA at Cambridge and therefore, to all who considered it, it must have been absolutely fabulous. That ‘halo effect’ (as it is called in organisational studies) is at work at many M.B.A. programmes throughout the world. Of course, reputation is usually an indicator of quality, but it is not always true. For me, the question is how do you really judge the quality of an M.B.A. programme. Research of services in general suggests that consumers use 4 things to evaluate a service: brand image, price, encounters with the company, and quality. Beginning with brand image. The challenge for any school is establishing a brand image (reputation). With respect to BMI, it is new, so it has not the established a reputation yet. However, it has attempted to mitigate this indirectly through its strategy to use leading professors from top business schools from around the world. So, if you were to attend BMI, you could say, “I got my MBA from BMI.” Some people might scratch their heads. But you could add, “Well, my professor for The World Economy module was John Branch, professor at Michigan, the #1 ranked school in the U.S. And my professor was from ZSEM, the leading school in the Balkans. And my Managing People professor was from CERAM, a top French school.” Another point to add here. Public universities by their virtue of being public, have a brand image as being supported by the government. But anybody who knows public institutions in Europe knows that in general they are not good (by international standards). They are poorly funded. The professors are not paid well. They are concerned only with research and not teaching. The facilities are not modern. Now of course, they are well known. But they are not good. So, do you want a brand? Or do you want an education? Or some combination? As for price, public institutions have the benefit of being publicly funded. But as you probably know, in Europe, most business schools are private (or some public private combination). Why? Largely because of the history of higher education in Europe. Economics was researched and taught, but business was not deemed important. So, you will see lots of economics departments in universities, but not many business schools. So, private business schools were set up. And naturally, the price is higher in order to cover costs. Some of the more established schools have loads of money from donors and companies. But they usually charge even higher fees. . . because they can. People will pay what they think it is worth. This is the basic marketing notion of value. With respect to BMI, it is more than some, and less than others. It is certainly more than public university business schools. But there you get what you pay for. . . mostly professors from that country, who have little international experience, are mostly concerned with their research and not the students, etc. Encounters. . . consumers tend to view the service company in terms of the encounters with people of the company. Because the service is intangible, it is easier to evaluate the people. So, when you have contact with anybody from an institution, ask yourself if the encounter meets or exceeds you expectations. I hope that the encounters which you have had with BMI, have demonstrated excellence. I know that the administration prides itself on this. And finally quality. . . hmm. The thing is that the traditional definition of quality which might come to mind (meeting certain production standards) does not really apply in services, because services are intangible, and, therefore, provide no touch points for quality evaluation. In fact, (more) research shows that consumers in general assess the empathy, responsiveness, reliability, and assurance of the people, and the ‘quality’ of the tangible evidence. . . you see, 5 things which are not the quality of the service, specifically because a service is intangible and so they look to the cues which are tangible: the people and the physical environment of the service. So, very pointedly, what does quality mean in an M.B.A.? Recently, and increasingly, business schools are applying for accreditation from various 3rd party accreditation agencies, principally AMBA (U.K.-based), EQUIS (European), and AACSB (American). They each have a list of ‘best practices’ for M.B.A. programmes, which a school must meet, before it can be accredited. They are not so prescriptive, however. Indeed, they require things like “Does the school demonstrate a concern for students? Does the school have adequate library facilities?”. I was going to use egg or milk marketing board quality accreditation as an analogy. But I think with eggs, there are very specific metrics for identifying “This egg is a Grade A”. . . moreso than with these accreditation agencies. Indeed, this is the definition of quality from manufacturing/operations. . . the reaching of certain production standards or specifications. But in education I believe, and especially in M.B.A. programmes where the whole idea of innovation and differentiation is not just the norm but the expectation, there is definitely not any generally accepted standards/specifications. Incidentally, B.M.I. is applying for accreditation, but for all three, there is a minimum existence period (usually 3 years) before you can be accredited. So, what is quality? At the end of the day, I suppose, quality is defined to a large extent by the customer. That is, if the student believes that the programme will meet his/her needs, then it is quality. Personally, I think the B.M.I. programme (the curriculum) is great and that is why I am affiliated with the school. It is focused, integrated, international, strategic, conceptual, theoretical and practical at the same time. B.M.I. was very innovative, creating a network of professors which, in my mind, are the three key things for M.B.A. programmes: teaching expertise (most are award-winning); international experience as expatriates, consultants, etc.; and branded (Ph.D. university, companies in which they work, and so on). Sure, B.M.I. does not have the brand, the tradition, the history, the gymnasium, the granite walled institutional feel. But, in additional to the curriculum and the professors, it has tonnes of other things: the city, the international students, the small class size with personal attention, the responsive administration, the paedagogy. So, there you go. Some things to consider as you are evaluating M.B.A. programmes. I would welcome your comments. Take care and ebst wishes, John Branch
Profile P.M.	Quote
ilay Joined: 12 Aug 2007 Posts: 2	MBA Spain Tue Aug 14, 2007 01:39 PM Hi everyone , I am looking for a masters degree program ( esp MBA and marketing) in barcelona. does anyone have any idea about Universitat de Barcelona.
Profile P.M.	Quote
katalina Joined: 17 Aug 2006 Posts: 108	MBA Spain Tue Aug 14, 2007 02:36 PM According to what I know, Universitat de Barcelona only offers a distance learning MBA. Which other schools are considering? I only did some research about MBA prog. in Spain, I can't tell you anything about other Master programs, sorry
Profile P.M.	Quote
SingleSpain Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Posts: 129	MBA Spain Tue Aug 14, 2007 03:46 PM University of Barcelona (MBA) www.fbg.ub.es/buscador.htm?f=xml/buscadorTotsCurso…
Profile P.M.	Quote
SingleSpain Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Posts: 129	MBA Spain Tue Aug 14, 2007 03:55 PM Mr Branch, Thanks for your comments here. The fact that you teach at BMI give me a guarantee for an interesting lecture when assisting, but an MBA has more that 1.000 hours, so, what about the others? I mean, which percentge of this total is from top professors? Probably very small, why? very simple for the cost of your hour, the school would incurr in losses. But second, as you know, an MBA cannot be offered by putting a professor from Ross, then other from X, and then from Z, because it would be a mess (if it`s not correctly coordinated). By the way, do you think that Cambirdge MBA is in the top 10 in Europe? PS: SingleSpain is a Ross alumni.
Profile P.M.	Quote
LP Joined: 19 Nov 2006 Posts: 157	MBA Spain Tue Aug 14, 2007 05:15 PM JD Branch, It suffices to have a look at the BMI web page to realize that almost no professor is a faculty member at a top school. Out of 22 professors, one is a lecturer at U. Michigan, and another one is an Assistant Prof at George Washington U. There is also an Associate Prof from Clemson, an Assistant Prof from Simon Fraser, and an Adjunct Prof from U Missouri. So how can you say that BMI faculty is composed of leading professors from top schools? In addition, there is some really misleading information. You use the MIT Sloan logo to make people believe that BMI has MIT faculty, but there's no MIT professor teaching at BMI. If you check the BMI faculty web page, www.barcelonami.org/professors/professor_profiles/… you'll see that the only person with the MIT logo is Prof. Sharp, who does not teach at MIT. He has published one article in the MIT Sloan Review, that's all. I don't think the Sloan School would appreciate that you use their logo in that way. [Edited by LP on 15 Aug 2007]
Profile P.M.	Quote
jdbranch Joined: 12 Aug 2007 Posts: 5	MBA Spain Wed Aug 15, 2007 02:43 PM Thanks for the comments and concerns. A few things: The programme at BMI is well coordinated, just as you would expect any MBA with all in-house professors to be coordinated. I agree, it is probably easier with all professors in one single location to have meetings and 'get on the same page'. But as academic director I have direct control and direct contact with each professor, and work on making certain that their content matches the overall integrated curriculum design which I set at the start. I would also argue that because the BMI programme was designed by one person (me), is controlled by one person (me), and so on, there are not the usual politics of a traditional school to get in the way of curriculum design. For example, at another university where I taught, I would sit in meetings where decisions would be taken based on when the professor wanted to take his holiday to India, rather than when was the most appropriate time for the students to take the module. It was a top 25 school in the United States. Cambridge MBA. . . according to the rankings, it is a very good business school. Now, again, following my logic in my last posting, I ask "What does quality in an MBA mean?" Clearly, Cambridge at 800 years old has a reputation. But is the curriculum actually what you want? Are the professors good teachers. Forget about research. Are they good in the classroom? As for professors from top business schools. . . there are more than 2 000 business schools in the United States, so top tier means different things to different people. In Europe, there is also a huge number of schools, but a generally accepted view of which are the 'best' schools. I know where the BMI professors are located and where they teach, and so on. I developed the network and am in contact with them often. And many if not all are located at, currently teach at, or have taught at top business schools. University of Michigan is one yes. But there is also Ohio State, Clemson, Helsinki School of Economics, Moscow State University, Stockholm School of Economics, ZSEM in Croatia, Missouri, Washington University, University of Western Ontario, Adelaide, George Washington University, CERAM, even ESADE (a Barcelona competitor). Now admittedly, some professors are from lesser known schools. But they were chosen because of their teaching excellence (not research) and because they also have some other brand to bring to the school (Where they got their Ph.D. for example). Remember that not all professors when they get their Ph.D.s want to go to top tier schools, because those schools are largely research institutions. That is, those schools define themselves with a scientific purpose. Teaching is secondary. Look at the mission statement of any university in the Carnegie 1 or 2 designation in the United States, or pretty much any publically-funded university in Europe, and it will be mostly about science, creation of knowledge, etc. Teaching is always a secondary. Now to my mind, this is a bad thing for a business school or any other professional school, which is trying to teach an action-oriented and mostly practical vocation. I often say that b-schools are just glorified welding schools. And would you want someone who knows only the theory of welding and is not a good teacher to be teaching you welding? Logos. . .The logos help to make visual on the website the schools, insitutions, and organisations where the professors have experience. Let me know if I can answer any other questions about MBA programmes in general or BMI specifically. Best wishes, John Branch
Profile P.M.	Quote
SingleSpain Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Posts: 129	MBA Spain Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:11 PM John, Regarding the professors at BMI, who is from ESADE? I can't see it from BMI web.
Profile P.M.	Quote
jdbranch Joined: 12 Aug 2007 Posts: 5	MBA Spain Thu Aug 16, 2007 01:03 PM Not all professors in the network are listed on the webpage at this time. The list is a good sample, but there are about 50 in the network. AS fo the ESADE folks, I don't know if they have asked our web administrator not to show their profiles, so I ought not to give their names. John
Profile P.M.	Quote
LP Joined: 19 Nov 2006 Posts: 157	MBA Spain Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:48 AM University of Michigan is one yes. But there is also Ohio State, Clemson, Helsinki School of Economics, Moscow State University, Stockholm School of Economics, ZSEM in Croatia, Missouri, Washington University, University of Western Ontario, Adelaide, George Washington University, CERAM, even ESADE (a Barcelona competitor). Please do not underestimate people in this forum. Moscow State, ZSEM, CERAM, Adelaide, Clemson, Ohio State, etc are not top schools, not by any reasonable standard. [Edited by LP on 17 Aug 2007]
Profile P.M.	Quote

PREV 1 2 3 4 NEXT