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katalina

Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 108
MBA price
Sat Apr 28, 2007 07:49 PM
I agree SingleSpain. The high tuition creates unfair competition for students from poorer countries, and most Bschools don't help to correct this in the sense that they would make it easier for those students to get scholarships. Ingeneral scholarships depend on the achievements, depends on results and profile of the candidate.

There are some exceptions though, like in Sweden or the Netherlands, there are special scholarships for students coming from "poorer" countries because of their lower chances to access high level education.

I'd wish schools in other countries would copy..
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katalina

Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 108
MBA price
Sat Apr 28, 2007 07:49 PM
BTW I'm not from Russia.. but from Venezuela
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James

Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 48
MBA price
Tue Jun 05, 2007 03:16 PM
The price of the MBa has always been an issue, as per any kind of expensive, and often good quality, education.

Do not forget it is a business, but a business made of big numbers, so you might find your scholarship in the least expected place, look for it there are more than you think.

good luck
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ro

Joined: 04 Jun 2007
Posts: 1
MBA price
Tue Jun 05, 2007 07:44 PM
hi, what would you recomend if i want to do an mba but have a low budget, on one side I have 50% scolarship granted eae, but it seem to me that coments towards it are not so good, the problem is despite my eforts i cant afford one of the top 3.

any good sugestions.
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SingleSpain

Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 98
MBA price
Wed Jun 06, 2007 08:30 AM
Dude,

Banco Sabadell, which is a Spanish Bank, offers a loan for 50.000 euros without co-signer. I think it´s worth to ask info about it.

Which is your profile?
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jaitego


Joined: 19 Nov 2006
Posts: 141
MBA price
Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:41 AM
If you are looking for something in Spain, you may also want to check the Carlos III MBA. It is accredited and reasonably priced. All other accredited programs are more expensive.
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carodel

Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 1
MBA price
Thu Jun 07, 2007 09:25 AM
Correct, Carlos III and also IE in Madrid offer a more reasonable MBA, especially the spanish version is cheaper than the english one.

The same applies in Barcelona with EADA which have better prices a different price for english and spanish MBA
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SingleSpain

Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 98
MBA price
Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:42 PM
Are you sure that Carlos III is offering an MBA? Such MBA with a cost of 9.000 euros, is ridiculous...

I have serious doubts about the quality of the program, the quality of the professors, and career services,...

Could you provide any succesfull experience?
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jaitego


Joined: 19 Nov 2006
Posts: 141
MBA price
Thu Jun 07, 2007 09:10 PM
I don't have any doubts about the quality of the program at Carlos III, given that it is accredited by the Association of MBAs, one of the three big accrediting agencies. Accreditation is only granted after a careful external audit, which is conducted by deans or directors from other accredited schools. Carlos III wouldn't be accredited if it didn't have a good-quality program.

As for prices, if I'm not mistaken, Carlos III is a public university and I guess it receives a lot of government funding. In a private school, tuition has to be higher because it must be enough to pay for most costs. In a public university, many of these costs are paid by the government. So the fact that tuition is low doesn't imply that the faculty, facilities or services are bad --it just means that somebody else (the government) is paying a big part of it, whereas in a private school students have to pay for everything.

[Edited 09 Jun 2007 by jaitego]
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SingleSpain

Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 98
MBA price
Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:53 PM
Yes, Spanish Public Universities are mostly funded by the Government. A typycal scheme would be 20% paid by students´ fees and 80% is paid by public budgets, but it depends of the University, but not big differences.

In the case of the MBA: the advantges of a business school are in many aspects as for instance recruiters (top notch consulting firms, banks, multinationals, etc) do prefer the prestigious schools. Also for networking (does not exist at all here in Publics), track record (IESE or ESADE have more than 30 years of MBAS), entrepreneurship, flexibility in the program, ability to atrack best teachers (in Publics, teachers are there for life as public servants),...
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katalina

Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 108
MBA price
Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:32 AM
I'm surprised to read your comment about life time professors in Carlos III MBA rogram, Singlespain. I always thought that doing an MBA in a public university has the advantage to be more or less subsidised, with public money, as you describe it. But I was convinced that same mechanisms as in private BSchools are applied to attract the best professors - as this is a key factor for the standing of a school.
Especially in a good program as the MBA in Carlos III, how could they maintain the high standard of their MBA with a team od public servant teachers, once in the job always in the job?
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jaitego


Joined: 19 Nov 2006
Posts: 141
MBA price
Sat Jun 09, 2007 01:50 PM
Katalina,

Don't be mislead: the tenure system (which is what SingleSpain refers to) exists all over the world, in both private and public universities or business schools.

Wharton, Harvard, Kellogg, MIT, ... you name it. Every good university or business school has a system whereby professors, after a "tenure-track" period where they have to publish research in good journals, either get tenure (employment for life) or are denied tenure and must go somewhere else. I don't think Carlos III is different in that respect, and if you look at the web pages of any public or private university you'll see they all work the same way.

The key is not in whether there is a tenure system or no tenure system. The issue is how schools decide who gets tenure and who doesn't. This is precisely one of the things that accreditations look at when they assess the quality of the program or the school. They want to make sure that promotions to tenure are based on merit.

Finally, the tenure system does not imply that universities are not able to attract good professors. As I said, all good universities and business schools (again, private and public) have tenure systems and still professors go in and out, looking for better places in terms of salaries, research environment or life quality.

[Edited 09 Jun 2007 by jaitego]
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SingleSpain

Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 98
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Sat Jun 09, 2007 04:16 PM
All,

What I am saying is that these professors are no the best to teach for business programs such as an MBA or executive education programs. As simple as this.

Anyway, in Publics, they tend to be there for "the rest of their life", most of them, at least in Spain. They do not have any flexibility that an MBA program need.

Which is your point, Jaiego about recruiters, netwotking, track record, international exposure?
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jaitego


Joined: 19 Nov 2006
Posts: 141
MBA price
Sat Jun 09, 2007 07:11 PM
I'm just saying that you have given information that is at best inaccurate, and sometimes just false, and I'm explaining why.

The tenure system is used everywhere. So why do you say it is some kind of pathology and is incompatible with a good MBA? Public universities are subsidized everywhere, which means they can charge less. So why do you say a cheaper tuition is ridiculous? And finally, if a program is internationally accredited, how can you say it's not even an MBA? I don't know.

[Edited 09 Jun 2007 by jaitego]
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sysha

Joined: 23 Jun 2007
Posts: 3
which school??
Sun Jun 24, 2007 04:10 PM
hey,
i suppose this is a forum only for mba. but, im planning to do my bba and have been accepted into 4 unis. bbs, esei, and european university all in barcelona and schiller international university in madrid. im quite confused as im hearing mixed reviews about everything. any chance u can tell me which one of these offer the best education?? the websites aren helping at all.
thnks
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jaitego


Joined: 19 Nov 2006
Posts: 141
which school??
Sun Jun 24, 2007 09:37 PM
Hello Sysha,

In Spain, the best reputed places to study a Bachelor's degree in business administration are Carlos III, Pompeu Fabra, and ESADE.

In terms of quality of faculty, Carlos III is the best, in my opinion. Pompeu is very good for economics, but so much for business, and in any case not as good as Carlos III in the business-related fields. ESADE is very well reputed for its MBA, but its BA is not so good, and its faculty is not as good as Carlos III in terms of research. None of the schools you've applied to are particularly good, and I wouldn't recommend them. Moreover, they must be really expensive compared to Carlos III or Pompeu, which are public.

The only Spanish ranking of Bachelor degrees, as far as I know, is the one made by the newspaper 'El Mundo', and it ranks Carlos III first, followed by Pompeu and ESADE:

aula.elmundo.es/aula/especiales/2007/50carreras/ad…

Finally, you should know that in some of these schools, for example Carlos III, you can do your BBA in English, in case you don't know enough Spanish or are just interested in doing it in English for some other reason.

[Edited 25 Jun 2007 by jaitego]
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sysha

Joined: 23 Jun 2007
Posts: 3
which school??
Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:43 AM
hey jaitego,
thanks a lot, i have written to carlos to find out if they are still accepting applications since i am a foreign student. i am dissappointed that not even one of the schools i applied to are worth it. thank u for pointing tht out to me. but i was just wondering incase i'm a bit late to get into carlos iii, which one of the ones i applied to would be better. ie, the least worst. u guessed right when u thought i did not know much spanish, which is why i applied to these schools as they tought in english. thanks for the info anyway. lemme know if u find anything else.
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jaitego


Joined: 19 Nov 2006
Posts: 141
which school??
Mon Jun 25, 2007 09:54 PM
I don't know much about the schools you've applied to. I've had a look at their web pages and I don't see which one would be better. They are all pretty unknown in Spain and look quite similar in terms of quality.

Try Carlos. If you are too late, one possibility would be to spend next year in one of the places you've already been admitted to (for ex. Schiller, which is in Madrid too), and then move to Carlos. You could use next year to prepare your application materials for Carlos III. I guess you would enter Carlos as a first-year student, but you may be able to waive some subjects (you would have to check if first-year subjects at Schiller and Carlos are similar).

[Edited 25 Jun 2007 by jaitego]
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sysha

Joined: 23 Jun 2007
Posts: 3
which school??
Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:49 AM
hey jaitego,
thanks a lot. i will probably end up doing just that because carlos still has not replied and there are various procedures to go through which i dont think i will have the time for before the term begins. i will probably transfer my credits. thanks for all your help.
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katalina

Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 108
MBA price
Tue Jul 03, 2007 07:03 PM

In the case of the MBA: the advantges of a business school are in many aspects as for instance recruiters (top notch consulting firms, banks, multinationals, etc) do prefer the prestigious schools. Also for networking (does not exist at all here in Publics), track record (IESE or ESADE have more than 30 years of MBAS), entrepreneurship, flexibility in the program, ability to atrack best teachers (in Publics, teachers are there for life as public servants),...


Hi Jaitego,
I'm very curious to get your point of view on the above post by SingleSpain.
I would think that in all these aspects named above (recruiters, networking, flexibility of program, entrepreneurship...) the private top schools in Spain will be excellent, I'm talking about IE, IESE, ESADE, and EADA. And it's true, thinking of a public University one intuitively presumes that it must be less sophisticated, or further away from "real" business. A silly idea maybe...
What would you say about the situation in this regard in CarlosIII?
Thank you in advance.
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jaitego


Joined: 19 Nov 2006
Posts: 141
MBA price
Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:55 PM
Hi Katalina,

Carlos III is one of the most prestigious centers of higher education in Spain, and is very well known throughout Europe. It has been very innovative in several respects: it was one of the first Spanish universities (public or private) to deliver graduate and undergraduate programs in English, to hire its faculty internationally, and to establish a "US-style" tenure-track system based on research outcomes (faculty are hired upon completion of PhD program and have to publish in good journals or otherwise are fired). The schools that you mention did have programs in English, but did not have "US-style" tenure track systems: they would hire professors and then keep them even if they didn't have good research records. In that sense Carlos III has been ahead of the business schools. It also has very nice facilities and beautiful campuses which do not conform with the stereotype.

I don't know what you mean by "real" business or by sophistication. Carlos III follows the US business school model, which emphasizes research. Faculty at Wharton or Kellogg is not composed of practitioners: faculty members are 90% academics who have to prove themselves mostly by doing research, and also by effectively teaching. But research is most important. ESADE and EADA follow a different system, where research is not that important. Their publication records are very poor. IE used to be like that but has tried to change, and IESE is somewhere in between.

UT Dallas has a ranking of schools based on business research. You can google it. It's a nice ranking because it focuses on the quality rather than the quantity of research. You'll notice two things. First, all Spanish institutions are pretty mediocre in research, and that includes IESE, IE, ESADE, etc. They don't even make it to the top 100, and are far from there. Second, within Spain, IESE comes first, then comes Carlos III, then IE,and finally ESADE and EADA.

As far as employability is concerned, Carlos III is very well known to Spanish employers and has a very good reputation within Spain. Although the MBA is very small, it has a large undergraduate degree in business which is considered among the best in Spain.

I don't think Carlos is well known to foreign employers, but neither is EADA. In fact, I would say that Carlos is better known than EADA. But my point is that it's not really a matter of "publics" versus "privates". You have to look at it program by program. In Spain there are good and bad public universities, and also good and bad private schools. You can't oversimplify.

I also think networking opportunities are weak at Carlos III, but I don't think this has to do with its public nature. I think it has to do with the fact that the program is quite young, so there's not many alumni "out there". IESE, IE and ESADE have a clear lead there.

I also have a question for you. I don't really understand why you are so interested in a Spanish MBA. If you want something really global I think you should definitely go to the US. I think this is where the most serious schools are. Is it because you are looking for a one-year degree, or is it a financial matter perhaps?

[Edited 05 Jul 2007 by jaitego]
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katalina

Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 108
MBA price
Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:04 PM
Hello Jaitego,

thanks for your answer.
You ask me why I'm interested in Spanish MBA progs, there are two main reasons, language and costs. Otherwise I'd chose to go to the US, as you say, to get something "really global", and because in Latin America it's more prestigeous to hold a US degree.
As for language, my English is ok, but I feel a lot more confortable to do my MBA in Spanish, it's such a demanding program, I don't have the courage to do it in English. As for costs, good Spanish MBAs tend to be cheaper than US ones, and also living costs. That's why I'm so keen on info about Carlos III: It seems to be an outstanding program, but tuition is comparably very low for the reasons you explain, and regarding my financial possibilities, this is a key factor for my decision making. Maybe a pity that money counts so much, but that's how it is.
Besides, for me it is easier to study in Spain for the paperstuff, as visa.

I understand that people who want to stay in Spain afterwards to work there will have most benefit of a Spanish MBA. I will definitely go to Spain for the reasons above, and most likely return to my country to work there after finishing the MBA (we'll see...), so for me it is very important to determine the INTERNATIONAL appeal and reputation of a program, for instance the question if international employers come and recruit those MBA holders, and not only Spanish companies.
I find it very interesting to read about the different focusses of Spanish B Schools, like strength inr research, but it's true that for me other arguments come first. Unfortunately, because for me personally counts most what I'll learn, the content - but I have to think first of the outcome in terms of job prospects.

Anyways, after reading your comments, and some of the fromer posts about Spanish MBA, Carlos III is first on my list, and I am glad that public Universities in Spain do offer such quality programs as an MBA for low, subsidised, tuition.

[Edited 05 Jul 2007 by katalina]
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jaitego


Joined: 19 Nov 2006
Posts: 141
MBA price
Thu Jul 05, 2007 01:23 PM
Are you sure about your English? Have you tried TOEFL? To me, your English seems good enough to enrol in an English program, and in that way you would improve it. Of course you'll always be more comfortable in Spanish, but perhaps for this reason, isn't an English program worth trying?

If I may, I have another suggestion. Since you cannot visit the schools that you are interested in, why don't you try to contact some of their alumni from Venezuela? You could write to the schools and ask them whether they have alumni who are working in Venezuela and would be willing to talk to you. That way you can get first-hand information without visiting the schools. I'm not sure how cooperative schools will be, but I guess they'll be happy to help. After all, it is a way of promoting their programs. In addition, if you talk to some alumni before you do your MBA, you may have a chance to keep in touch with them afterwards and they may help you if you go back to Venezuela with your MBA title.

You mention that you care a lot about the MBA being recognized by international employers. On the one hand, the Carlos III MBA is not as well known as the big ones like IESE, ESADE or IE. On the other hand, the university is well known in Europe for its undergraduate and doctoral studies, so I would think this would also benefit its MBA graduates.

[Edited 05 Jul 2007 by jaitego]
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katalina

Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 108
MBA price
Sun Jul 08, 2007 04:15 PM
Thanks Jaitego for encouraging me!
Maybe I'm a bit silly what my English is concerned, I know that it's ok, but I just don't dare to do my MBA in a foreign language, since I want to have best results possible. Mainly this is because the oral English is my strength, but when it comes to writing on a high intellectual level, I feel too limited.

I will now do a little research on other MBAs in Spain offered by public schools, to have more options besides Carlos III where it is difficult to get in for its reputation, I presume.
Then, finally, I will start the application process..

I'll be back!

Kata


.

[Edited 08 Jul 2007 by katalina]
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pedro 56

Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 2
Is a forum
Mon Jul 09, 2007 05:26 PM
Jaitego,

Just having a look on this forum just on the first two posts on Spain listed, it looks like you work in the MBA schools and more specifically for Carlos III which you are over-promoting. I hope I am mistaken but you give the same information of an informative session on this forum which should just avoid selling programmes.
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