MBA Discussion Board

[Edited by Hiroko on 03 Mar 2007]

[Edited by jcohen on 03 Mar 2007]

[Edited by Hiroko on 12 Mar 2007]

[Edited by Hiroko on 16 Mar 2007]

This regarding some of your posts about NYC business schools:

What's happening in terms of the perception of local MBA programs is that relative comparisons are becoming more difficult, and perceived differences between certain schools are beginning to narrow. For example, Columbia's edge over NYU is slowly eroding in part, due to the fact that Stern is further entrenching itself, as a leader in finance and investment valuation. And on a national scale, its finance curriculum is comparable to those of Chicago and Wharton. The same thing is happening between Fordham and St. John's: The Tobin College of Business is moving sharply into "Risk, Financial Engineering, and Investment Management" through its School of Risk Management. With the exception of leveraging its Economics Dept., Fordham does not have the infrastructure to currently compete with St. John's in the more quantitative disciplines related to finance and the strategic management of risk. One of Fordham's perceived strengths is in media, which St. John's cannot presently match in terms of geographical and industry-connected resources. If you compare faculty backgrounds, you'll see a few Fordham finance Profs. with MBAs from St. John's, but not the equivalent in reverse. Back then, Fordham was clearly the 3rd strongest program behind Columbia and NYU. This is not the standard perception now, as more applicants are comparing St. John's to Fordham and vice versa.

I would still rank St. John's as the third strongest MBA program behind Columbia and NYU Stern (you can search Stern's web site to see one reason why I make this remark), even if only for the reason that they made more improvements to its program, since 2000 than its regionally ranked competitors. Also, considering the high trade rates between the two schools (St. John's and Fordham); people are more interested in the best fit for them, concerning each school's relative strengths.

[Edited by G3XL on 20 Mar 2007]

[Edited by Hiroko on 20 Mar 2007]

Hey RexD, thanks for these comments, I highly appreciate!
About the option to do an online MBA, I wanted to ask you how you think this would be perceived by employers. Does an online MBA not look a bit less serious? What do you think?
It's definitely more practical and easier to combine with a job. But I never considered because I was afraid that it's not worth so much on the job market.

[Edited by Hiroko on 27 Mar 2007]

No disrespect or anything, but the problem with your analysis is that it omits the fact that media ranking information cannot replace real world events that have already occurred. At the end of the day, bschools are judged by the quality of their graduates. Also, I don't think you're qualified to tell STJ students, alum, and other constituents how to interact with the school: The extra $10 million increase in the bschool's endowment (since Tobin took over) places the school on the right track toward their $40 million capital campaign. Your lengthy response is only composed of highly emotional personal opinions about my evidence and prior media ranking information about Fordham. My assertions are based on real proven facts about St. John's.

Don't talk to me about reputation and rankings...Fordham has a new MQSF (Master of Science in Quantitative Finance) program, which is uniquely good and well positioned (as their other MS programs), but it is not competitive against a university's business school that owns an entire School of Risk Management, which is arguably one of the best in the country, as asserted by the actuarial and finance communities. Sorry, but St. John's is a lot stronger in Finance than Fordham, whereas Fordham is stronger in Media.

Again, your argument would have improved credibility if you accurately admitted that you don't have much knowledge about St. John's. Face facts: Fordham, Baruch, and Pace are ranked in US News P/T primarily because their campuses are in Manhattan. You can reference the 1998 article in Crain's Business to verify this. In the same article, it was opined that St. John's compares favorably to any of the above three, given a similar advantage. Also it stated back then that the GMAT averages for the four schools were in a similar high 550-575+ range. Hopefully, by this point you have figured out why they pursued the Manhattan campus. Fordham competes with St. John's for the same applicants, as evidenced by the high trade rates between the two universities. Fordham has a superior national reputation? I don't think so. Take a look at what this poster had to say:

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From: portb71

I am glad we are on the same page because you seem pretty well informed. I am extremely wary of this guy (SHREK123, KESTRELS, etc). Many of his handles have been deleted because of his creepy fascination with bashing some Canadian school.

St John's as far as I am concerned is every bit as good as Fordham and probably better known. That said you make the point I have made: to lump Fordham with Columbia is bound to raise suspicions of SARBROWN. Fordham is a good school...but it caters to a slightly different market. Ignore this Shrek character. Real head case. I appreciate the insight into SJU and agree they ought to do more to get the word out about the quality program they have.
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By the way, the above poster went to Georgetown. Having a bunch of MS and MBA programs and naming them internationally doesn't necessarily bestow an international reputation. You need to have something more tangible to show for such acclaim. Fordham's strategic partner is Thunderbird, while St. John's strategic partner is the London School of Economics. Fordham's entire bschool is in Manhattan, while St. John's Tobin College of Business spans from Manhattan all the way to Rome, Italy. Plus St. John's has a much higher percentage of international students in its business school than Fordham. Again, media rankings don't necessarily fill the coffers; you need to have a highly funded endowment campaign in place. Don't believe me? Take a look at what this Columbia Business School grad had to say:

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From: CBSGrad

On one of Columbia's career websites SJU advertised for a fundraising type of position. This is at least some evidence of some of G3XL's assertions. At least SJU is trying to improve its endowment by trying to hire experienced people, unlike Fordham which is relying almost solely on tuition. There's virtually no academic institution in this world that can do that and expect to survive. That plan is a sure recipe for extinction.
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Before you talk about donations, remember that the Tobin College has more money than the business school you're pushing. Don't believe me? Who do you think bought the School of Risk Management? Regarding recruiting, the same firm's recruit at both bschools for similar positions, and when work experience in quality and quantity is equal among applicants, the starting salaries are roughly the same. Columbia and NYU grads would get higher compensation packages within the same situation. So, if all you have is media ranking information and personal opinions, then you don't have much to go on. I, at least manage with the force of facts.

[Edited by york on 08 Apr 2007]

[Edited by G3XL on 09 Apr 2007]